the fugal mode

ismashpatriarchyonthefirstdate:

somepolitics:

ismashpatriarchyonthefirstdate:

Anyone and everyone who enters into someone’s home without permission, no matter the cirumstances, deserves to be shot and possibly killed.

End of fucking story.

No. Fuck that.

That’s bullshit.

…

psychrophyte:

holybat: Still going on with the insults? Oooooooohhh that makes your arguments SO VALID.

Prove to me that humans were not meant to eat meat despite our instincts asking us to do so since we’re humans and despite our fangs.

The whole chilean thing, I apologize for that now because I wasn’t informed. Now I understand what you wanted to say, but I thought it meant something else, that’s why I was avoiding it because I didn’t want to start another shit storm.

Again, it’s not veganism or vegetarianism I have a problem with, I have a problem with a majority of vegans and vegetarians. If you are not a part of the group who tries to impose their lifestyle onto others then why did you feel offended?

Your initial post was rude and aimed towards all Vegans, and yet I still responded to it respectfully. Then you started swearing and throwing personal insults at me so I gave you the same in return.

Nowhere have I made the claim that humans are not omnivorous by nature, but there is more than that to take into consideration:

• Eating meat is not a necessary trait of an omnivorous creature. Take black bears for example, their digestive systems are much closer to that of a carnivore than our own and yet they almost never eat meat. Some black bear in the mountains near streams will eat fish, and some will eat eggs if they find them, but otherwise they live entirely off of a vegetation-based diet. Orangutans, one of our closest evolutionary relatives, are also omnivores, and the only things they eat other than fruits and other forms of vegetation are insects and bird eggs.
• People in industrialized societies are far from feral and our lives are far from “natural”. We are not scouring a field of extremely limited resources as our ancestors did, but rather we have every type of food at our fingertips.  We have enough knowledge of food and nutrition to compose a diet which meets our nutritional needs.  All of the nutrition which can be derived from meat, eggs, and dairy can be derived from alternative sources.
• There are plenty of healthy Vegans out there, myself being one of them. (and being a 198cm tall with a crazy metabolism, that says something) Many of the Vegans I know are bodybuilders, personal trainers and the likes. The idea that Vegans and other vegetarians are unhealthy, weak people is nothing more than a myth perpetuated by the animal agricultural industry. Does it take some effort to be a healthy Vegan? Sure, but no more effort than it does to become a healthy omnivore.  If you’re a Vegan or vegetarian and only eat crap, you’re going to suffer from nutritional deficiencies.  If you’re an omni and only eat crap, you’re going to be riddled with heart disease and other major health issues, as well as nutritional deficiencies. Health isn’t a simple matter of vegetarian vs. omnivore, it’s a matter of personal effort.
• The concept of not eating meat and animal products is nothing new. Asia has a rich history of vegetarian cultures. Buddhist monks have been living ovo-lacto diets since 600 B.C. and Jains have been living strictly lacto diets for about the same amount of time. The majority of India is vegetarian and the Indus Valley region has been home to a mass of vegetarians since the beginning of recorded history. India has a remarkably high life expectancy rate considering how impoverished many of its citizens are. This signifies that people with harsh standards of living can manage a vegetarian diet. To be honest, I’ve never understood the price argument. My diet as an ovo-lacto vegetarian was far cheaper than it was as a meat eater, though as a Vegan it’s more expensive than it was as a ovo-lacto vegetarian, but still a little less than it was when I ate meat. In many poor countries, especially in Africa and Southeast Asia, meat and milk are both seen as a privilege because they are too expensive to be eaten regularly.
• Please prove to me that eating meat is instinctive, that it is not simply the nutrients contained in the meat which we instinctively crave. I for one have no craving whatsoever for meat because my diet satisfies my nutritional needs.
• Having cuspids does not necessarily signify that we’re meant to eat meat. Again, black bears have massive cuspids, and a tooth structure pretty close to that of a carnivore, and they rarely eat meat. Orangutans have cuspids as well and they do not eat meat. Like the orangutan, our tooth structure is much closer to that of an herbivore. More importantly, our digestive system is almost identical to that of an herbivore. We have very long intestines, low stomach acidity, alkalinic saliva, bumby bowels, flat incisors, and the list goes on and on. Also unlike animals which eat meat, we have little tolerance for cholesterol and we require a large amount of fiber to properly digest our food.

Again, I’m not claiming that humans are not naturally omnivorous, but simply that there are many other factors to take into consideration.

I felt offended because you only specified “Vegans” in your original post, which includes all Vegans, including myself. You made no specification that you were only referring to people who unconditionally bash other peoples’ diets. I understand that not everybody in the world has the same privilege. As I initially stated, most Vegans only criticize those who actively support the animal agricultural industry, not those who implicitly support it as a result of having no real choice in the matter.

Also I’m not sure why you believe that Vegans and vegetarians do not fight for laws and regulations to protect animals from being mistreated on farms. This is pretty much what all animal activists live for. I will praise and work beside omnivores who advocate organic industries and fight to increase farm animals’ living standards and minimize the damage. It’s a step in the right direction, but even a purely organic market would take its toll on the environment and poor people all over the world.

This is such an informative and well-reasoned post. It’s a bit sad that you had to put so much emphasis on the fact that nothing you said was a claim that we’re not naturally omnivores, and that you’re not criticizing people who legitimately would have major difficulties switching to a healthy vegan diet. But I’m glad you did, as it seems people are quick to misinterpret things when it comes to this subject.

I’d like to chip in on this discussion, as a non-vegan. I eat meat and animal products, yet I’ve never felt any hatred toward vegans and vegetarians. I know that defensive kind of response is popular, but it doesn’t really make sense.

Personally, I’m glad when I hear vegans and vegetarians talk about the cruelty that is present in the companies from which I’ve bought my eggs, milk, and meat. I’m glad when they talk about the healthier alternatives. It inspires me to stop buying from companies that do things I dislike (if I have a choice, which I feel I do), and it helps me plan for a healthier diet.

I don’t currently plan on ever being completely vegan, but I’m really happy that others are helping me make certain changes in my food choices that I’ve often wished to make. It’s like having people there to remind me that I shouldn’t eat a bunch of candy at once because I’m going to regret it when I’m sick later. You don’t need to completely change your diet if you don’t want to, but no one’s hurting you by talking about problems in the meat industry and how people can help lessen them if we stop buying this crap. They have every reason to look down on you if they feel you’re doing something harmful (guess what: you probably are). There’s no need to jump to unfounded stereotypes about vegans, or start mimicking myths about the diet. It will always just come across like you’re feeling guilty, then attacking others and going into denial to avoid the feeling. Come on people, let’s stop with the weird, hateful responses toward vegans and vegetarians.